Jonathon Dough,
It was a straightforward question and deserves a straightforward answer.
The link doesn't appear to answer the question I put to you.
I wasn't referring to my link but my earlier post. The link is just a signature.
jonathan dough
JoinedPosts by jonathan dough
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jonathan dough
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204
Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.
by jonathan dough ini'll start with john 14:8-10. .
scriptural support for the triune nature of god, and the gradual recognition that jesus christ, the word incarnate (john 1:1), was and is god, can be found throughout the bible.
the evidence is abundant and unfolds like a flower, foreshadowed in the old testament and revealed in the new testament.
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jonathan dough
And another reason why Jesus was, and is, God, and not just a man or a created angel.
The fullness of the Godhead dwells inseparably in Jesus - (Colossians 2:9); He is the very imprint of God’s being - (Hebrews 1:3)
Colossians 2:9 is convincing evidence of the divinity of Christ. It states of Christ that “in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily” (Green’s Literal Translation). The Greek word for “Godhead” is theotes and means divinity. It “stresses deity, the state of being God (Strong and Vine’s, 115). It is to be distinguished from theiotes which refers to the attributes of God, his divine nature and properties and it is this definition which the Jehovah's Witnesses incorrectly attach to Col 2:9 when they claim that the Godhead there merely refers to His “divine qualities” (Reasoning, 420). This is manifestly incorrect according to Strong and Vine’s, and what the Jehovah's Witnesses are actually doing is swapping theiotes for theotes. Regarding the Godhead (theotes) at Colossians 2:9:
In Col 2:9, Paul is declaring that in the Son there dwells all the fullness of absolute Godhead; they were no mere rays of divine glory which gilded him, lighting up His Person for a season and with a splendor not His own; but He was, and is, absolute and perfect God; and the apostle uses theotes to express this essential and personal Godhead of the Son. Theotes indicates the divine essence of Godhood, the personality of God; (Strong and Vines, 114). [Theotes] stresses deity, the state of being God. (ibid, 115).
(Theiotes, on the other hand), … refers to the attributes of God, His divine nature and properties. (Strong and Vine’s, 114)
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57
You are Still Special After Exiting the Witnesses-You Have a Purpose in Life
by flipper ini wanted to post this as we have so many new ones on the board here - i thought they might benefit from some uplifting words from steve hassan's book " releasing the bonds " .
many newly exiting the jw 's feel lost , like they don't know what to do , or where to turn, what causes that ?
notice these quotes from steve hassan .. on pg.
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50
OT God YHWH versus Jesus' Father
by Mad Sweeney ini'm starting to think they're not the same being.
thoughts?.
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jonathan dough
I'm starting to think they're not the same being. Thoughts?
Bad thought. Same thing. Why would you think they are two separate Gods?
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204
Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.
by jonathan dough ini'll start with john 14:8-10. .
scriptural support for the triune nature of god, and the gradual recognition that jesus christ, the word incarnate (john 1:1), was and is god, can be found throughout the bible.
the evidence is abundant and unfolds like a flower, foreshadowed in the old testament and revealed in the new testament.
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jonathan dough
Here's another reason the JWs' "Word" the Christ can't be just a man and not created, and that he was, and is, God. It involves the Holy Spirit.
The baptismal formula at Matthew 28:19 reflects in one sentence the Trinitarian doctrine of three Persons as one by virtue of the singular “name” into which Christian believers are to be baptized. By means of logical deduction Christ must be eternal in accordance with the baptismal formula.
For example, the Jehovah's Witnesses would have Christians baptized under three distinct and separate authorities which is scripturally unfounded. If they were right, and the Son is separate from the Father, the Holy Spirit must also be separate from the Father, but that in turn would imply that the Father was without His electrical current or authority and He is not all powerful. If, on the other hand, the Holy Spirit is inseparable from the Father then neither can the Son be separate from the Father because Christ is the Spirit.
To illustrate further, Paul taught at Romans 8:9-11 that the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ and 2 Corinthians 3:17 teaches that Jehovah God (or the Lord) is the Spirit (NWT; “the Lord is the Spirit” RSV). And, it is this Spirit, the Holy Spirit, that dwells within the Christian believer. Thus, there are not two separate Spirits that reside within, God’s and Christ’s, but one Spirit, according to Ephesians 4:4.
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)
But you are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit, if the Sprit of God really dwells in you. Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin, your spirits are alive because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you. (Romans 9:8-11 RSV)
Jehovah is the spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:17 NWT; “the Lord is the Spirit” RSV)
However, if, as the Jehovah's Witnesses falsely teach, the preexistent Christ is a created creature only, then the Holy Spirit must also have been created and accordingly there would have been a time when there was no Holy Spirit and therefore God would have lacked power and authority and would not have been omnipotent, according to their theory. But, since the Holy Spirit is eternal, which the Jehovah's Witnesses must concede, and the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ, and this Spirit is the Holy Spirit, Christ the Word must be eternal.
Not surprisingly, the Jehovah’s Witnesses changed Romans 8:10 by inserting the word “union,” so that Christ is not in the believer, but only in union with the believer, writing: “But if Christ is in union with you, the body indeed is dead on account of sin …” NWT).
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204
Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.
by jonathan dough ini'll start with john 14:8-10. .
scriptural support for the triune nature of god, and the gradual recognition that jesus christ, the word incarnate (john 1:1), was and is god, can be found throughout the bible.
the evidence is abundant and unfolds like a flower, foreshadowed in the old testament and revealed in the new testament.
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jonathan dough
God is in my shoe?
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jonathan dough
Jonathon Dough
Do you seriously believe that atheists only have bad lives?
Read it closer.
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204
Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.
by jonathan dough ini'll start with john 14:8-10. .
scriptural support for the triune nature of god, and the gradual recognition that jesus christ, the word incarnate (john 1:1), was and is god, can be found throughout the bible.
the evidence is abundant and unfolds like a flower, foreshadowed in the old testament and revealed in the new testament.
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jonathan dough
"I AM."
Jonathan,
I AM is not a name either as you were shown. The Apostles did not call Jesus Wonderful Counselor, Eternal Father or things like that anywhere. Now you can keep on insisting on it but your Trinitarian sources are not scripture.
Joseph
First, you are applying too narrow of a test, ie. "We have to have proof that the apostles called Jesus this name, or else that is not his name." We don't know if they did or not. That doesn't mean they didn't, but that's beside the point because the fact of Jesus being God was gradual revelation.
Secondly, they knew that he referred to Himself as the I AM and being fully aware of Exodus 3:16 they also knew the I AM to be a name.
Third, the NT does not record that Jesus was called Immanuel either by the apostles, but that is his name as well. Although they might have.
Fourth, they didn't call Him Jesus Christ, either. That was not his name while on earth, but that is considered His name now.
You have tunnel vision on this. The Trinity doctrine is based on sound scriptural evidence. Jesus Christ is the I AM.
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57
You are Still Special After Exiting the Witnesses-You Have a Purpose in Life
by flipper ini wanted to post this as we have so many new ones on the board here - i thought they might benefit from some uplifting words from steve hassan's book " releasing the bonds " .
many newly exiting the jw 's feel lost , like they don't know what to do , or where to turn, what causes that ?
notice these quotes from steve hassan .. on pg.
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jonathan dough
But whatever you do, don't make the mistake of turning your back on Scripture like the ex-JW atheists and God-haters on this site have done; they are just Satan's minions and offer very little in the long run. The biggest mistake you can do is pretend that the Bible is not the word of God, and thereby do your own thing as you see fit. It's understandable that the JWs have poisoned you to the truth as represented in the Bible, but that is their version, their error, and that's based on their NWT Bible, which is no real Bible at all. If you have been in for very long, you probably have been brainwashed to believe that Christendom is the work of Satan. It's not. You probably think the Trinity is the work of the devil. It's not. You have just been mislead to believe that.
Don't turn your back on Him and deny Him. Do not be anti-Christ. Don't swing from one ridiculous extreme to another more ridiculous extreme. From the Almighty's perspective you are better off in the cult and believing in Him than denying Him. I don't need to tell you the risks involved. Plenty of good protestants and catholics out there. Some of them are preaching on the radio.
Nice initial post by Flipper, though. Not taking anything away from that.
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204
Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.
by jonathan dough ini'll start with john 14:8-10. .
scriptural support for the triune nature of god, and the gradual recognition that jesus christ, the word incarnate (john 1:1), was and is god, can be found throughout the bible.
the evidence is abundant and unfolds like a flower, foreshadowed in the old testament and revealed in the new testament.
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jonathan dough
Now you are trying to tell me I am wrong and teaching that Wonderful Counselor is a name, or Mighty God is a name or Eternal Father is a name, or Prince of Peach is a name.
That is exactly what I am saying. You are using a concept of name too narrowly, which is a common JW tactic. While shem can also be a synonym for reputation and fame, it is predominantly used as that which one is called, thus a name. The child will be called a name. In this instance it can have a dual application. Christianity teaches Christ had many names, that the sense of name with respect to him is very broad, and for an exhaustive list of Christ's other names, check the subject index of Strong and Vines where you will find at least 150 other "names" for Christ such as "I AM." We know you reject the Trinity, but I'd much rather put my trust in 2 Billion Christians and the vast majority of Bibles and scholars who apply a broader interpretation of shem and other references to Christ. The I AM is a name. Moses asked God specifically for a name, that which he should be called. Exodus 3:16. You're thinking in English.